[Interview] Seo Ji-hyeon and Shiori Ito, Trailblazers of #MeToo in Korea and Japan

Shiori Ito walked in carrying a load heavier than her body weight. Prosecutor Seo Ji-hyeon (45, left) ran towards her when she saw Ito enter. "Did you have anything to eat?" "Aren't you tired?" When Seo practically snatched some of the bags off Ito, she laughed and said apologetically, "I'm really okay...."

Seo Ji-hyeon and Shiori Ito, the two women symbolizing the #MeToo campaign in South Korea and Japan respectively met in South Korea in December. After Ito made public her experience of being raped by Noriyuki Yamaguchi, the chief of the TBS Washington bureau, in May 2017, she suffered from death threats. Eventually she moved to the United Kingdom, where she currently works as a freelance journalist. Ito met Seo in South Korea during a business trip after much difficulty. The day she returned, Seo saw her off at the airport. The Kyunghyang Shinmunreceived the consent of the two women and accompanied them on their way to the airport.

Q. We would like to know how the two of you met.

Shiori Ito: I read Seo's story in the news after I had disclosed my experience as a victim. I tried to find a way to contact her when I came to South Korea in October, but returned to London without any success. I was so happy and surprised when I received an e-mail from the prosecutor.

Ito was raped when she was drunk and unconscious in 2015. She reported the incident, but later held a press conference and made public her case when the authorities failed to launch an investigation. A taxi driver and the hotel staff gave statements in support of Ito's story after much difficulty, and the authorities had secured the DNA evidence of the assailant. However, the prosecutors canceled plans to arrest Yamaguchi after the brakes were mysteriously pulled just before the arrest. The prosecutors dropped the charges on Yamaguchi. The Japan Timescovered this case and said, "Yamaguchi is one of the few journalists who know the personal contacts of Shinzo Abe."

Q. Personally, what meaning does the meeting between the two of you have? Do you have any plans to act in solidarity?

Ito: Nothing specific yet. At first, we just enjoyed delicious food together. We thought about how we could support people with similar experiences.

Seo: I actually planned not to see anyone or do anything anymore (after the disclosure), so I never thought about meeting Ito. I had this sense of relief that many things would change even if I remained still. But a year passed, and nothing changed. I was building up my courage to do what I could, if there was anything that I could do, when I read Ito's interview in South Korea in October. I thought we could give each other courage. That alone was significant, but we talked about doing something if there was anything that we could do together.

Q. In South Korea, the issue of women's rights emerged as a social issue after the murder of a woman at Gangnam Station in 2016.

Ito: The incident itself was very tragic and shocking, but I was more impressed by the culture, in which Korean women came out and raised their voices. I thought about how we could get the citizens in Japan to voice their thoughts, too... and I felt that South Korea was really great. In Japan, legislation on sexual violence has not been amended for the past 110 years (They were only partially amended in 2017 after Ito disclosed her case.). Nothing changes if you just wait and do nothing. When I told my family about what I had suffered and said that I would go public, my younger sister opposed asking, "Why does it have to be you?" I thought someone had to do it. I thought that I should be the one speaking about my rights. That way, the same incident would not happen again.

Q. In Japan, the #MeToo campaign is not as active as it is in South Korea. Do you agree with the assessment that the #MeToo campaign failed in Japan?

Ito: Before, most of the (Japanese) media did not talk about this (sexual violence). So I think just the fact that people in Japan know about what I suffered is itself a success. But after I spoke out, there was serious secondary victimization. In Japan, whether it's a woman or a man, why can't we talk about the sexual violence that one experiences? It's because secondary victimization is the most frightening. This is because there is no system that protects or helps the victim of sexual assault. This isn't the fault of the people who did not speak up, but a problem with the system.

Q. Do you think the South Korean society has improved since the ignition of the #MeToo campaign?

Seo: I don't know. Many women thank me. They say that they are more careful now. But can we say that things have improved just based on that alone? There's a fierce backlash and the women who spoke out are suffering from all kinds of backbiting and counter lawsuits.... People are divided into misandrists and misogynists, and aversion and conflict are raging fiercer.

Q. It's not easy to speak about the experience as a victim in South Korea either, but the issue was triggered with Seo's #MeToo statement.

Ito: South Korea has a history where the people succeeded in resisting injustice and speaking their minds. Japan does not have such a history, so people do not think that they can succeed (in fighting injustice). I think this is a big difference between the two countries. If I collapse here, people will think, "It was right not to speak (about the experience of sexual assault)"... and that is why I am standing up now.

Q. Both of you suffered from backbiting and threats after you spoke up.

Seo: At first, I thought I could give an explanation to all the harsh rumors. I worked as a prosecutor for fifteen years, so I thought I would prove everything. But when I explained the ill rumors, people would make up new ones. That's when I knew, ‘Oh, this is a spider web that I cannot escape.’ I've gotten rid of the illusion that I can escape this web now. I think, rather than fight the web, I should squarely face the spider and seek a way to avoid being eaten at the last minute.

Q. Who do you think is the spider that spun the web?

Seo: In a narrow sense, the perpetrator and the prosecution, and in a broader sense, this society. Do you think the victims went through unspeakable suffering due to the sexual violence? Or did they die away due to the suffering caused by a community that neglected the sexual violence and actually criticized the victim while protecting the assailant? Was it the victim's weakness and fear that silenced them? Or was it because of this cruel community that doubted and condemned the victims, calling them whores and gold diggers rather than looking into the truth?

Ito: I also received many threats. Someone sent a knife to my family. I had to listen to words like, "be careful" while working. The hardest thing is the threats aimed at family and friends. After I spoke up, I couldn't see my family for a certain period of time. To this day, there are still many people who cannot freely act worried that their family could become the target of crime.

Ito filed a civil lawsuit against her perpetrator, but a trial has yet to officially open a year after the suit was filed. Her assailant argued that he was innocent and announced that he would sue Ito, but he has not actually filed the suit. Ahn Tae-geun, former chief prosecutor, who allegedly made Seo suffer disadvantages in the Prosecution Service's employee transfers after sexually assaulting the prosecutor, is on trial for misfeasance.

Q. In the first trial of Ahn Hee-jung's rape case, the former governor was acquitted on grounds that the victim did not "act like a victim" after the incident. You two also received similar attacks, didn't you? What do you think about a society that forces victims of sexual assault to "behave like victims"?

Seo: Sexual violence is not a problem of the sexes, it is a matter of power. What pained the victims of sexual violence to this day is the fact that it was an action carried out by the entire society. I think it is more a social disaster than an individual crime. It's like a kind of mental holocaust on the vulnerable. The atmosphere of society as a whole forced the victims to wither away by banning them from resisting and exposing the incident. Shouldn't this cruel community change now?

Ito: That's right. "What’s wrong with the social system?" I think that is the biggest problem. When I first went to the police station, they wouldn't accept my report, even when I tried to file one. Back then, I had no idea what I was supposed to do when something like that happened. They say that in Japan only 4% of the victims of sexual assault report the incident. In many cases, they don't even know if there is a law (to protect the victim or to punish the perpetrator).

When Ito first went to the police station, the police said, "It is difficult to investigate, because it happens frequently." The prosecutors dropped the charges saying, "It was an incident that happened behind closed doors (black box)." In October 2017, Ito published her book, Black Box, which tells of her rape, the investigation, the secondary victimization, and the problems in the judicial system. This book was awarded the Best Journalism Award by the Free Press Association of Japan. It was published in South Korea in May.

Q. You met the elderly comfort women victims in South Korea in October. What was it like?

Ito: (Ito could not speak for a while after receiving this question.) How can I possibly tell you everything? Sexual violence continues to occur regardless of the age and place. I asked the elderly woman I met, "When will my tears dry?" She said, "You can't forget it (until you die), and the tears never dry." (Ito spoke with difficulty. She seemed to be trying to swallow back her tears. Seo, who was listening to Ito's reply, cried more, and Ito held her.) After the incident, everyday, I feel incongruous with myself... and I am living with that experience. "I feel like I was killed back then, but why is my body alive?" That is what I thought after (the incident). If I were a car, I feel like someone has taken the steering wheel. I don't know how I'm to control the car now or who I'm being controlled by. I have completely changed, and I really thought that I had died. But now I am slowly finding my direction as I live with that (the experience of sexual assault).

Q. Do you ever regret having made your experience public?

Ito: No regrets what so ever. Although a lot of things I never expected happened,... I would make the same decision.

Seo: Me, too. I didn't open my mouth because I was brave, but because I couldn't stand it anymore. I was also dying of the sexual violence and retaliation in transfers like Shiori, and I would have really died if I remained that way. I wrote the post (on the Prosecution Service intranet) and sat for the interview thinking of it as a social suicide.

Q. Victims who continue to suffer in silence at this very moment will read this article. Do you have something you want to say to them?

Ito: The first thing I want to say is to "believe in your truth." You know best what you've been through, so despite the criticism and whatever else you may hear from those around you, you have to trust your truth. I blamed myself a lot, too.... But I want to say that I did everything I could do at the time and whatever it was that I did not do, I didn’t because I couldn’t. First, you have to survive. Survive, save your strength and take whatever action you can, when you can. It's okay (to stay still) if there's nothing you can do. When I visited the South Korean sexual violence relief center in October, someone said to me, "What you did was the best." That was the first time anyone had praised me (after the incident). I was really happy when she told me that. I want to say the same thing.

Seo: Why should I have to say something to the victims? Shouldn't the state and society say something now? I think it's meaningless to tell the victims to be brave. I know very well that they are surviving with all the courage they can muster right now. Still, if I have to say something, I'd like to say this. "Let's love ourselves." You must never forget that you are more precious than anyone, you cannot compare with your perpetrator.

- Prosecutor Seo Ji-hyeon (left) and journalist Shiori Ito met for the first time in South Korea in December. Seo accompanied Ito on her way to the airport. The two women decided to seek ways to help victims suffering from sexual assault. Kim Gi-nam